Could we have a link to said work for those of that do not frequent the forums as much as we would like? This is simply to add some context to the discussion.
On Criticism
Recently, there was a bit of a dust-up in the comments section for a submitted picture that seems to have resulted in some ill will, so I'll try to keep the nature of my comments here as general as possible in an effort to not further antagonize anyone. Please note: I am not expressing an opinion on that picture here.
With the situation in question, a commenter posted a well expressed, logical, but dissenting comment to the piece in question and then was pounced upon for the rest of the thread for doing so.
The dissenter has expressed before a desire to see more critical thought applied to commentary instead of the ubiquitous praise he always sees. I think that he is fundamentally correct in this assertion and the reaction to his comments to the picture in question has been illustrative. It is rare to see a truly critical comment of works in the community, so it may seem harsh when someone comes along and speaks out - even tangentially - against the prevailing direction of the commentary.
Perhaps the abundant praise is rooted in a fear that any criticism will result in fewer works being submitted or that someone's feelings may get hurt if the work is not smothered in praise. I'll be blunt and say "get over it". It is a compliment when someone takes the time to write a thoughtful, polite, yet negative comment to a posted work. It is also quite a mistake to call into question the motives of someone who takes the time to form an opinion on a work and to express that opinion coherently - as was done in this case. And when that criticism comes from a well established and talented community artist, it is a mistake to dismiss it because the commenter is not being a team player.
Rudeness is not acceptable, but don't confuse bluntness with rudeness. A dissenter is not necessarily always correct simply by the virtue of his dissension, but if you are going to defend your position from him, then your defense needs to be at least as articulate and thoughtful as his.
Think before you comment. If you like the work, why do you like it? If not, why not? If you are unable to coherently express your opinion, then you need to ponder why not and post only when you can answer so. A well thought out and expressed comment, positive or negative, is the best compliment you can give an artist or writer.
Sat, 05/31/2008 - 18:56
#3
Sat, 05/31/2008 - 19:48
#4
SvenS
shyguy123 wrote:
Could we have a link to said work for those of that do not frequent the forums as much as we would like? This is simply to add some context to the discussion.
My point was not to make issue with the picture itself, so it's not really necessary to be party to that argument in its comments section. But, if really you must see it, then make a quick perusal of the gallery and you will find it.
I'm trying to address the general nature of the commentary and criticism in the community and how it is given and received. As such, my post above is not really directed at individuals and I don't think it is helpful to further antagonize anybody on either side of that argument. But the incident does serve as a good example of some trends that I've noticed that also coincide with the dissenter's observations.
Inflate123, you put it more much succinctly and I appreciate your advice.
I think the community has stagnated somewhat and that a good dose of critical thought is needed reanimate it.
Sat, 05/31/2008 - 21:32
#5
Since the picture in question is mine, I want to put my two cents in here.
To people who think that the original comment was in any way meant to deprecate the picture itself, you are completely and utterly wrong. It was an entirely legitimate criticism; keep in mind that it's coming from someone who just happens to value a greater balance of realism than many others.
I respect that people were trying to defend their own viewpoint regarding the picture, but it ultimately doesn't matter since everyone's going to have different opinions on it. If you like it, fine, I'm glad, but if someone wants to point out a logical inconsistency, then let them do so. I was fully aware of the inherent flaws the picture had going in.
But that's just the thing. Praise is always greatly appreciated, but ultimately, I value the comments telling me what I did wrong far more than the ones that tell me what I did right.
To me, the whole thing seems like a witch hunt. It was a perfectly innocuous comment, and it meant absolutely no harm. In fact, the complete opposite is true - it, like any constructive critique, was intended to help me improve.
Sun, 06/01/2008 - 06:27
#6
It is perfectly alright to criticize a work. Constructive criticism has help many improve their art (matter of fact, any trade) a person does. When the comment is well thought off and constructive in a legible manner, it is a merit to receive.
And on commenting, so comment only to show praise on the work. These usually are, "Wow, awesome pic." or "That's adorable." These comments don't provide much feed back, but however shows approval from the masses.
On the contrary, the random message of disapproval and disgust some get can make artists feel let down, and even swayed from drawing. I could provide examples, but I believe we all have had them. It also furthers the misunderstanding and bias opinions of inflation artists, definitely when the artist responds in the same rude manner.
And the last type of comment is the considered gold, and its the one Svens speaks of. Another's clear observation of a work and responds, be it positive and negative, to a work its a great thing to hear. Sometimes, the commenter will note what he/she likes and dislikes about the work. It makes the artist feel much more accomplished when he/she receive such comments.
These are my thoughts about it, and the entire commenting scheme. ^_^
And about the commenter on the piece in question, I feel bad for that person. He responded honestly and politely, and still got pounce by others just because he was negative about something. It's just a shame that that happened. -_-
Sun, 06/01/2008 - 12:16
#7
This little community, from what I've seen, appears to fall into two main categories when it comes to commenting. First the people who mindlessly accept anything given to them and whose replies are simply heaping praise upon artwork without any constructive criticism.
Then there are those who are never happy. You know, the people who say "DRAW ANOTHER AND MAKE EM BIGGER PLZ" or whatever. I find the latter more annoying obviously, but neither of them paint a very good picture of the community. One makes us look like we're easily pleased and willing to take anything without question and the other makes us look ungrateful and juvenile.
We need more critically thinking people in this community. I think the whole thing going on is a sorry affair and just goes to show how overprotective we've become. It was just as bad people talking about hacking Encyclopedia Dramatica because their article about inflation art wasn't very nice (nevermind ED ALWAYS does this to EVERYTHING)... We really need to learn some humility and maybe learn to laugh at ourselves.
I think the main mistake is that people are simply not open to criticism; they want encouragement and praise (positive stuff) but nothing negative. And that's a mindset that needs to change if you post your work publicly.
If the criticism is coming across nasty, then you have a reason to be upset or object -- how it's said is as important as what's being said. But you have to be able to step back and divorce yourself from the effort you put into your work and look at the comments objectively.
If you feel a comment is off-base or misses the point of your work...let it go. You have a new perspective on how someone saw what you created. Take it for whatever it is worth to you.
And in this case, you have to be ready for an interpretation of your artwork that you never expected. The artist controls their creation, but cannot control their audience.
Remember there is a difference between ACCEPTING criticism and AGREEING with that criticism. You don't always have to do the latter, but you always have to do the former, and you can ALWAYS learn from it. Sometimes, you just wind up learning how to accept criticism.
It's not easy. But it really is necessary.
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