Note to people who want to make MMORPG's

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JunkintheTrunk
Note to people who want to make MMORPG's

I've noticed that very few people who are into this whole "inflation" thing actually know how game programming works. I'll try to keep this short and sweet.

MMO games require your own servers that are always up and running and generally have very large amounts of hard drive space to store player data. They also require a very fast internet connection, likely business-level speed, so that players can play without huge amounts of lag. Not to mention how incredibly difficult it is create a stable, secure world involving unusually large numbers of people connecting at one time, some of which have the knowledge to hack the program as they wish if it's not secured well. Not to mention there are probably a large variety of spells, abilities, and items to program, provided that the abilities mostly do more than just provide stat boosts. Let's not forget just getting the controls right, which I doubt many of you know how to do. Throw this together with the fact that you'll need some sort of "pay with real money" aspect to maintain your server and pay your programmers, artists, and the like (especially the programmers, seeing as patches are often necessary), even if it means having users pay just to play the game, much like World of Warcraft or City of Heroes. Then you have to moderate everything, so that players don't go screwing up this huge project your team has put together. Let's not forget that you need to actually get publicity for it to work. I highly doubt that a strange MMO that involves inflating women for no other purpose than to provide erotic content to a fairly obscure fetish would succeed among a general audience. There are bigger fetishes that have succeeded with it, however, like the furries, but keep in mind that inflation is heavily dwarfed by furries, including combination fetishes involving furries, furry inflation included. However, I doubt inflation would have a big enough audience to survive, unless you could somehow bring it across in a way that was strictly meant to be non-erotic.

Now, if you can get past the ridiculous costs of making a functional MMO, let's face it. Most successful MMORPG games thrive by getting users to pay for what is effectively nothing in the real world, and often involve endless grinding and/or pressing a button over and over, hoping that your stats are better than your enemies' stats so that you don't die. They generally have little fun factor to them, and are more often just addicting, whether it be for social reasons or, more likely, for the satisfaction of leveling up your character. Most of the time, how "good" you are at the game is almost entirely dependent on how long you've spent playing the game. Some MMO games do offer bits of strategy, but it's usually minimal, seeing as the game puts more emphasis on stats than being able to land careful, sneaky blows or being able to dodge attacks, or being able to attack properly, or whatever case may apply to a game with more bite for its bark than an MMORPG.

Case in point, an MMO game is not only very hard to make, or even make work as far as gameplay goes, but is usually done for monetary purposes, and is rather unrealistic for a single person or small team to make, and they're usually not that great anyways. You'd be better of making an actually innovative and fun game. And if you're new at programming, go with something easier. Yuji Naka programmed the first Sonic the Hedgehog nearly by himself. If he could, you can make a platformer (or simpler) game too. And that was back when games weren't as easy to program as they are today, with simplified languages aimed specifically at game developers, like BlitzMax. If you're going to get a start with programming, do something reasonable. You're not going to be able to recreate WoW as your first program, that's a near guarantee. Be reasonable.

fwoomp
fwoomp's picture

Glad you're not singling anybody out!

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degausser

Junkie, I have a question, in fact, it's a question that I have for any nay-sayers that pop up on forums.

Why do you care?

Fwoomp here is going to try something out. If you don't want to be a part of it, then don't No one is going to blame you or anything, promise. Now, it may end up working, as Fwoomp seems to know the score and know how to program, and it may not, as you've stated, it is very difficult to program anything, especially a MMORPG. My big question is why do you care? Unless you ACTIVLY want this game to fail (and it doesn't seem like you're that vindictive) then what's the deal.

I happen to know a little bit about computers. While I am not a programmer by any stretch of the imagination, I do know that all programs are very complex and that everything is very difficult, and I was as skeptical as you when it was announced. But I figured hey, maybe there is some Template out there that Fwoomp is basing it off of. Maybe it's being planed as a Maple-story level game, which is much more simplistic than something like WoW. So I figure it'd be good to sit back and relax, and see what comes of it.

As for the server issue, that's true, your absolutly right, FOR MAJOR MMORPGs. However, A simple high-powered home computer with a fast Ethernet connection can act as a server IF there are few enough people. My friends somehow got the ability to make their own WoW server and ten of them would run around in their own private little world having fun on my friend's machine. Given that there's not going to be a lot of us playing, I don't thing it will be much of an issue.

Lastly, I'm sure Fwoomp could get SOME group to advertise in the game, or maybe have a little ad bar, and while being annoying, they would pay for space, reducing cost to the player.

Mogman

Woah, slow down there degausser. I highly doubt he was being vindictive at all, and he certainly wasn't flaming or trying to shoot down any attempt at making an MMORPG. I have lurked on this community for a long time and i've seen many people get a little over-ambitious when it comes to contributing to the community. He never mentioned Fwoomp or anyone specifically, he was simply putting the facts out there.

Speaking of inflation games though, what ever happened to that big RPG that Ifrit had planned to make along with a few others? (if you ever frequented #infl8 or #inflation then you'd most likely remember). The yahoo group is still up but i've nothing really came out of it in the end :(

fwoomp
fwoomp's picture

You gotta be kidding me. It's like working in a cube farm, having somebody wear the checkered orange pants to work, and then seeing the memo sent out to everybody the day after talking about appropriate dress. Anyone with half a brain knows what this is a response to, and the general addressee is just a simple ploy to avoid the threat of a response to what one is saying.

You should check out the engine kits like Torque and Realmcrafter, both of which are purchased and used for very high-end commercial games. Of course I'm not programming an engine from scratch. I wouldn't seriously consider it without quitting my full-time job and maybe getting divorced, too. Show me a thread where I once said that it was what I WAS doing, and I'll eat my shoes, foot included.

This is just something I'm doing that I thought I'd share once it's at a stage I can accept, and that I would also draw a little more motivation off of the people that would be excited to get involved with it. Nothing more.

AND THE PRICE IS RIGHT! (it's free.)

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thegassyshadow

I'm all for it. It seems like a good Idea in the first place, even though there are those problems that show up in the design process. I happen to be a dabbler myself, and can't wait to see the final product. when's th launch date?

I am the spreader of chaos, the evil that haunts the darkest corners of the human mind I'm the... PFFFFFT!!!!!! Crap, I ripped a big one.

JunkintheTrunk
fwoomp wrote:
You gotta be kidding me. It's like working in a cube farm, having somebody wear the checkered orange pants to work, and then seeing the memo sent out to everybody the day after talking about appropriate dress. Anyone with half a brain knows what this is a response to, and the general addressee is just a simple ploy to avoid the threat of a response to what one is saying.

You should check out the engine kits like Torque and Realmcrafter, both of which are purchased and used for very high-end commercial games. Of course I'm not programming an engine from scratch. I wouldn't seriously consider it without quitting my full-time job and maybe getting divorced, too. Show me a thread where I once said that it was what I WAS doing, and I'll eat my shoes, foot included.

This is just something I'm doing that I thought I'd share once it's at a stage I can accept, and that I would also draw a little more motivation off of the people that would be excited to get involved with it. Nothing more.

AND THE PRICE IS RIGHT! (it's free.)

But my question for you: have you ever programmed a game? If so, I would highly recommend making a single player (or local multiplayer) game first. From hanging out on programming forums, I hear a zillion kids each day come in and say they want to make the MOST AWESOME MMORPG EVER, when quite frankly, that's extremely unreasonable for a first programming task. My first was making a simple platforming game, and I do believe it was inflation-related. Mind you, it was incredibly glitchy, but at least I learned from a failed project.

Now, if you can show me up and make even a simple, working MMO game, I will step down and admit that I've have been a naysayer. Show what you got, pardner.

To be honest, I overexaggerated a bit. I was talking about a "successful" MMO game when I was making my long rant before. It is possible to make a smaller one, but just be aware that you'll need to use networking features and a server computer, which could possibly be your own PC, provided you don't have too many users playing at once.

thegassyshadow
JunkintheTrunk wrote:
fwoomp wrote:
You gotta be kidding me. It's like working in a cube farm, having somebody wear the checkered orange pants to work, and then seeing the memo sent out to everybody the day after talking about appropriate dress. Anyone with half a brain knows what this is a response to, and the general addressee is just a simple ploy to avoid the threat of a response to what one is saying.

You should check out the engine kits like Torque and Realmcrafter, both of which are purchased and used for very high-end commercial games. Of course I'm not programming an engine from scratch. I wouldn't seriously consider it without quitting my full-time job and maybe getting divorced, too. Show me a thread where I once said that it was what I WAS doing, and I'll eat my shoes, foot included.

This is just something I'm doing that I thought I'd share once it's at a stage I can accept, and that I would also draw a little more motivation off of the people that would be excited to get involved with it. Nothing more.

AND THE PRICE IS RIGHT! (it's free.)

But my question for you have you ever programmed a game? If so, I would highly recommend making a single player (or local multiplayer) game first. From hanging out on programming forums, I hear a zillion kids each day come in and say they want to make the MOST AWESOME MMORPG EVER, when quite frankly, that's extremely unreasonable for a first programming task. My first was making a simple platforming game, and I do believe it was inflation-related. Mind you, it was incredibly glitchy, but at least I learned from a failed project.

Now, if you can show me up and make even a simple, working MMO game, I will step down and admit that I've have been a naysayer. Show what you got, pardner.

To be honest, I overexaggerated a bit. I was talking about a "successful" MMO game when I was making my long rant before. It is possible to make a smaller one, but just be aware that you'll need to use networking features and a server computer, which could possibly be your own PC, provided you don't have too many users playing at once.

Sometimes you dont have to be able to program the game yourself. There are other jobs you could do that could maintain on the project. If you have gotten so far as the programming, and are getting frustrated, get someone else to help you. If that doesn't work than its time to try a new approach.

There are a lot of things to worry about going up in smoke while in the design stage and that's what your alpha and beta testers are for. If you ever have the time headto your local barnes and noble store and pick up the mastering unreal engine book. It should clear up a good quantity of misunderstandings when it comes to making your game

I am the spreader of chaos, the evil that haunts the darkest corners of the human mind I'm the... PFFFFFT!!!!!! Crap, I ripped a big one.

fwoomp
fwoomp's picture

I'll post a video capture once I feel that my zone looks up to snuff. Like I said, it's already running, albeit with placeholder graphics. The BE NPC is simply an elf. Tonight I'm doing modelling.

But dude, you don't know me, and you don't know my programming background. I've clearly fed into this enough already, but if you're doubting now, with nothing to go on, it's not likely you're ever going to stop.

I'm not responding to your challenge, I wasted enough time on this already. In the meantime, here's some suggested reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

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fwoomp
fwoomp's picture
thegassyshadow wrote:
I'm all for it. It seems like a good Idea in the first place, even though there are those problems that show up in the design process. I happen to be a dabbler myself, and can't wait to see the final product. when's th launch date?

Launch date? No way.

I'm just collecting addresses for alpha testers, and hope to start renting server space in December (original post, first sentence) for them to give me feedback.

For an inflation forum, this sure is a lot of pressure!

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JunkintheTrunk

Well, in any case, I'll be interested to see if you succeed. I just hope that the servers accept such a sexually oriented game.

fwoomp
fwoomp's picture

Right. I'm sure I'll have a hard time finding porn servers. That's not popular with the internet.

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LutherVKane
LutherVKane's picture
JunkintheTrunk wrote:
I've noticed that very few people who are into this whole "inflation" thing actually know how game programming works. I'll try to keep this short and sweet.

Fail, and fail. Let me see if I can sum this up.

  • You're very insightful and knowledgeable on the subject of game programming.
  • You really want everyone else to know just how insightful and knowledgeable you are.
  • Game programming is really hard.
  • World of Warcraft is really expensive to create and maintain.

With judicious use of bullet points, you can save people several paragraphs of wankery.

degausser

Look, can we just drop it? Dude brought up a point, and it was valid (though, perhaps, unwaranted.) Now we've got everything under control. Time to sit back, relax, and wait for screen captures.

In my experiance, telling people that they 'fail' rarely does any good, and usually is just like pouring Kerosene on a fire. (would pour gas, but that's too expensive.)

JunkintheTrunk
LutherVKane wrote:
JunkintheTrunk wrote:
I've noticed that very few people who are into this whole "inflation" thing actually know how game programming works. I'll try to keep this short and sweet.

Fail, and fail. Let me see if I can sum this up.

  • You're very insightful and knowledgeable on the subject of game programming.
  • You really want everyone else to know just how insightful and knowledgeable you are.
  • Game programming is really hard.
  • World of Warcraft is really expensive to create and maintain.

With judicious use of bullet points, you can save people several paragraphs of wankery.

I make these points in order to state that an MMO game is not easy to make. It's really quite a large task for an individual developer.

Inflate123
Inflate123's picture
JunkintheTrunk wrote:
I make these points in order to state that an MMO game is not easy to make. It's really quite a large task for an individual developer.

That's certainly true. The scale of a project alone makes it a extremely difficult undertaking; you need more than just ambition. And yet, it might only take one person to get things running, depending on their tools and skills. Sustaining it almost certainly requires more -- but we're making a lot of assumptions about resources, experience, and designs without having any facts. I don't know fwoomp's resources any more than I know your experience in the field.

Junk, you've come off as superior and negative in your first few points, so...can we start over? You suggest that you have experience programming or at least experience with the programming community online. What's your background? I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but it would help if we knew what makes you an expert on the subject. You're off to a bad start by being critical but not constructive, and we can change that.

thegassyshadow
Inflate123 wrote:
JunkintheTrunk wrote:
I make these points in order to state that an MMO game is not easy to make. It's really quite a large task for an individual developer.

That's certainly true. The scale of a project alone makes it a extremely difficult undertaking; you need more than just ambition. And yet, it might only take one person to get things running, depending on their tools and skills. Sustaining it almost certainly requires more -- but we're making a lot of assumptions about resources, experience, and designs without having any facts. I don't know fwoomp's resources any more than I know your experience in the field.

Junk, you've come off as superior and negative in your first few points, so...can we start over? You suggest that you have experience programming or at least experience with the programming community online. What's your background? I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but it would help if we knew what makes you an expert on the subject. You're off to a bad start by being critical but not constructive, and we can change that.

I agree. with all of those comments you sounded like that you were purposely trying to halt the Idea in the first place. Second, you cant judge any one else with out getting the whole picture. Have you ever tried to make a game from scratch withot any help? I honestly believe that we should salute fwoomp for taking the initiative for starting this project in the first place.

Honestly when I asked about the launch date, I wanted to Know when we could download the content to our computers and start playing the game. When is the latest we can expect before we start the game?

I am the spreader of chaos, the evil that haunts the darkest corners of the human mind I'm the... PFFFFFT!!!!!! Crap, I ripped a big one.