Floating balloon suit

22 posts / 0 new

Tue, 03/25/2014 - 23:16

AshyPie

I have asked people about floating with a helium inflated suit before but everyone says it's simply impossible so I decided to do so research and have calculated that with:
60 Cubic meters of uncompressed helium = 132 pounds of lift
Approximately of course…
But wouldn't the helium be compressed into the suit? Especially if we used a sturdy suit? Or perhaps that pressure would crush whatever small girl you put in it…
And what if you used hydrogen!
Wouldn't it take half as much gas! It still seems impossible… but maybe almost do able.
Someone smarter should help me determine the possibility of floating please!

By the way I do understand how big 60 cubic meters is… but if we could get that number down 10x I think that's an appropriate size…

I'm a pretty kitty~

Tue, 03/25/2014 - 23:18

AshyPie

Oh! And with 40 cubic meters you could still bounce around! That would be fun!

I'm a pretty kitty~

Wed, 03/26/2014 - 02:09

MixMaster (not verified)

I'm sure that it can be done, but that is a pretty expensive project you're talking about there. Also, did calculate into your equation the weight of the suit itself? ;P 60 cubic meters of anything is going to weigh something... I admire your gusto, but I'm pretty sure some of the more engineering inclined minds of these forums have pretty much broke this issue down before.

Wed, 03/26/2014 - 04:16

Cutter

If I remember correctly hydrogen only has 20% more lift capacity that helium. Then there is the whole problem of it being explosive.

Wed, 03/26/2014 - 05:50

AshyPie

Yeah… hydrogen is dangerous… helium is expensive…
But the suit would only weigh five pounds at the most and the helium would have a negative weight the more there is the more negative the weight is…
And I think it would still be possible to make a person weigh 30 pounds with the right suit.

I'm a pretty kitty~

Wed, 03/26/2014 - 16:11

(Reply to #5) #6

doubleintegral

Unfortunately a 5lb suit of that size is not really realistic.

60 cubic meters is about 2,118 cu.ft. and a sphere about 16ft in diameter. Let's say you wanted to make that sphere out of 1/4"-thick latex. You'll end up with a suit containing over 200 cu.ft. of latex (plus the empty space inside it), and since latex has a density of about 57 lbs/cu.ft. your suit will weigh close to 6 tons.

Stories I have written

Wed, 03/26/2014 - 06:27

rjp101

Sadly it's impossible because Physics says so.

A helium balloon floats because it's contents are less dense than the oxygen/nitrogen mix that makes up the air surrounding it. If you could keep the balloon the same size while increasing the amount of helium inside (increasing the pressure) You'd reach a point where the balloon no longer floats and eventually sinks.

60 cubic meters of helium compressed into a smaller suit won't provide you with anywhere near the same lift, while a suit that's a practical size for a person to wear and sturdy enough to contain the Helium will hardly make a difference.

Wed, 03/26/2014 - 18:43

(Reply to #6) #8

AshyPie

Aww… I forgot about that. I thought if you compressed helium that much it wouldnt float anymore… Oh well…
#DreamsCrushed
Just kidding! Thanks for the words of wisdom! It really helped!
=P

I'm a pretty kitty~

Wed, 03/26/2014 - 07:34

carnatic

Was gonna say, yeah if you compress the helium then you're making it more dense and reducing its lifting potential.

Which is the reason why tanks of helium don't feel lighter than tanks of anything else. Helium doesn't actually lift, rather it's the heavier stuff around it that pushes it up.

Thu, 03/27/2014 - 00:04

#10

blowup_boy

I made a rubber suit that was 10 feet across once, Massive. However it weighed over 35lbs, possibly more! The amount of helium needed to lift the suit along would be substanchal. (This was using 0.4mm thick latex)

Our standard huge inflatable suit 0.4mm thick (Squeak Latex) was filled with helium for a music video. With no one in it, it along stood up by itself (kind of cool) and was certainly light/floaty, but in the end it still needed to be hoisted up via a rope. With no one inside.

Since I don't really see anything else besides rubber (possibly plastic?) being able to be used and it itself weighting a considerable. Even putting a "person" weighing 100lbs plus the weight of the suit. In the end what you wouldn't be able to create something wearable to life you up. even if it was a ball.

If you actually wanted to do this. You'd be better off attaching a harness to someone, which is then attached to a large or should I say HUGE balloon filled with helium. Then wear an inflatable suit. This would give you the feeling of being inflated and floating/bouncing. This is as close as sciene would allow you to do at this point.

Hisssssssssssss.. ...uh oh!!

Thu, 03/27/2014 - 03:40

#11

klaeresource

Keep in mind that rubber and latex "bleed" helium. A Mylar suit might be better. But as others have noted above, it would be huge. I guess you'll have to wait for the first gymnasium to be built on the Moon. (Or play around with inflatable suits in a pool.)

Thu, 03/27/2014 - 08:28

#12

Beebobloon

I'm all for the love of community but sometimes I wish people would just let this one die out.

It's impossible.

BeccaBloon

Thu, 03/27/2014 - 11:48

#13

deleted_20180328 (not verified)

Pure helium lift capacity (not balloon gas) = 1.29kg/m³

Average person = 100kg (220lbs).

Therefore you'd need 78m³ of Helium to create neutral bouyancy of an average person.

That's a sphere 5.5m in diameter (average person is 1.7m tall).

You'd need at least 88m² of material to create the sphere.

So, until we find an element lighter than helium... We can't do it. You could probably 'simulate' it by taking an inflatable suit onto the vomit comet.

Thu, 03/27/2014 - 13:29

(Reply to #13) #14

rjp101

It's even worse than that. 1.29 is the value for a pure vacuum, discounting the mass of the helium. It's the hard limit for your model. The only way round it would be to leap into the realms of sci-fi and talk about disruption or cancellation of the earth's gravitational field

if you go the vomit comet route then you may as well ditch the suit all together.

Thu, 03/27/2014 - 17:47

#15

Pskunkman001

Ok...time for me to chime in....

I started a similar discussion about this last year on how to float yourself.

Too figure out what size you would need to float yourself go here: http://www.southernballoonworks.com/balloons/spheroid-balloons.html

I was going to use this type of balloon to get the you at least neutral boyantcy, then fill your suit to lift you up.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 03:20

#16

Kurzer (not verified)

What if we replaced the air surrounding the suit with Sulfur Hexafluoride, a high density gas? Between that and a suit filled with pure Hydrogen there should be a lift capacity of about 50 pounds.

Even without a suit, the heavier than air molecule has all sorts of interesting physical properties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PJTq2xQiQ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=winZR7JqxBs

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 09:59

#17

latecomer

The hexaflouride is probably violently poisonous... but the whole point is, physically there's no way to pull this off, but Latecomer sez you don't have to. You have an imagination, you can buy or make a costume that looks like how you would like to look in that state, and you have a nice big mirror in your bathroom. With a little creative costuming, you can pretend in front of the mirror- and in the process, break any physical laws you want to, without endangering yourself. And without the helium bills (that stuff is not cheap!).

And I'll bet there are a lot of people here who could offer advice on how to enjoy pretending, so you would not have to invent your costume, inflation method, narrative/role, and whatnot from scratch- like I did, years ago before I knew this site existed.

You can do it!

-Latecomer

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 12:34

#18

Kurzer (not verified)

Hexaflouride isn't poisionous, watch the video links for more info on that.

Purely hypotetically, a hydrogen balloon of 2m diameter in a room full of radon would have about 80 lbs of lift. Since hydrogen is dangerously flammable and radon is radioacive, this should never be attempted in real life.

So to achive a sensation of floating I think the best material might be foam. I haven't done the exact math on it, but if the density is correct, a really thick bubble bath might be the closest thing to actual floating.

Even if you can't float, foam is still pretty awesome.

http://www.the-lovgrens.com/kevin/Foam_Waves.html

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 12:49

#19

deleted_20180328 (not verified)

You can still float on water in an inflatable suit quite readily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw8Wqsv5UeQ

Wed, 04/02/2014 - 01:29

#20

rjp101

Sulphur Hexaflouride is inert and non toxic (apart from being one of the worst greenhouse gases known to man) plus if you take away all the oxygen you solve the problem of the Hydrogen being flammable, pure genius!

Kurzer, we nominate you to try this out and we can all watch safely from the next room as you asphixiate yourself in a Sulphur Hexaflouride atmosphere.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 02:14

#21

oh2bpreg

Another thing people seem to overlook is that even if you had a suit filled with helium/hydrogen/whatever, you yourself are still affected by gravity.

So, if you were to ever win that megamillions lottery and buy the Houston Astrodome and a suit big enough to lift you off the ground, your body is still going to try to go down. Say the suit is a giant sphere with a neck hole for you to stick your head out of. Your entire body weight is going to be supported by a death grip (it's gotta be air tight) around your neck and throat. Doesn't sound very pleasant.

Thu, 04/03/2014 - 07:43

(Reply to #21) #22

deleted_20180328 (not verified)

It doesn't have to be air tight, there are double skin suits, however you're right, if there was a suit big enough, then your body weight would rotate you downwards, so you'd end up being upside down with the majority of the suit above you. Not pleasant.

Floating balloon suit

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